Can you take me back to Thanksgiving 2022 where this all began? When those layoffs started coming,

juxtaposed against the holidays, that really hurt. I was like, I need to do something about this to help.

I’m joined by someone who’s helped nearly 4,000 people land jobs. With nearly 20 years of experience at Amazon,

Goldman Sachs, and now Tencent, Emma brings deep insight into game industry trends. 150 applications per year until

you found the work you’re doing now. How is that possible? Not right now doesn’t mean not forever. I was never ever going

to give up on games, but I also had a responsibility to take care of myself,

have a job, have income, develop skills, and so forth. We talked about how to break into the games industry, how helping others can

come back in surprising ways, and how to protect your time while staying insanely generous. No one’s going to find out that you’re

an available candidate by accident. I’ve never gotten a job in my career through a cold application. Every job I’ve

gotten was because of relationships built with other people. If you have any relationship whatsoever to the hiring

manager recruiter for a job that you could describe as meaningful, you are 15 to 20 times more likely to get the job

than someone that has no relationship whatsoever. From someone leading the most trusted games career community in games, this

episode guest and director of business development at Tensson, Amir Sappa.

Amir, welcome to the show. Thank you so much, Harry. It’s always good to spend time with a friend. Going

to be fun. Likewise, man. We met first time in person at Gamescom last year. It was a bit surreal, right? Cuz we’ve kind of

seen each other on LinkedIn, shared a few DMs, then you see each other in person, it’s like, “Ah, cool. You’re

here.” It’s really funny. I tell people like this whole social media phenomenon, it reminds me of having

dating myself as being over 40, but having pen pals. It’s like having pen pals when we were kids, you know?

Exactly. It’s very It’s very exciting. Yeah. you build like one style of relationship then you re meet in person

and it’s just like oh this is what this feels like and it’s yeah it’s always interesting to see people in person after you know engaged online. So for

people at home for those who don’t know air has helped nearly 4,000 people land

jobs and that’s not even his job. So his job is actually director of business development at Tencent and he’s built

one of the if yeah the biggest gaming community when it comes to find helping people find their career in games and I

wanted to talk to him today about yes finding a career in games but also the person behind kind of this system

because he’s doing two effectively from the outside full-time gigs as a one

person. So for the conversation today I wanted to get into kind of like the truth about game careers. What are the

odds? what is air amir seeing on the behind the scenes but also kind of like the cost of doing this personally and

how to kind of manage that and then also building systems that scale beyond because I know you started this as a spreadsheet but now you’ve got a whole

discord community this all takes time I’m looking to build my community in the future I’ll be very curious about that and also about setting boundaries as

well because you’ve now become a public figure and I’ve seen the post as well like there’s pros and cons with that so

digging into all of that and I want to start off with your journey So, we’re

researching for this podcast. We were chatting before the before the pod. You were rejected 2,000 times be over 15

years in the games industry. So, I saw it and I was like, no. And then, yes.

So, 150 applications per year until you

found the work you were doing now um at Tencent. Obviously, you were Amazon games before. So, how is that possible?

Please tell me what’s happened there. Yeah. Uh, no. Absolutely. I mean, you know

what what the story of all of that is is I grew up in a very tight-knit diaspora

of a Persian community in the northeast United States, very close to my parents,

only child Persian community where they like made their own school to teach all the kids Farsy and we called everybody

aunt and uncle. You know how it is. In addition to my family which is very large. Why am I mentioning this? It was

I had two things that were clear to me that were very important to me by the time I was finishing high school, which

is one, I never wanted to leave the East Coast and be away from my family. And the second one is if at all possible, I

wanted to work in games. Now the problem is I applied to many many opportunities

at many many places and there even were opportunities to get into games but

nobody would give me remote work and at the time as you know there were a very

finite number of companies in the east coast of the US that did games especially since I didn’t live lower

down near like Bethesda or any of those places and the older I got it became

harder because once you’re 10 years five years out of work and you’ve never worked in games. Now all of a sudden

they want you in a role that has 10 years of experience and you have zero. And so that is the main thrust of the

story and um I think I’m so glad you asked it first and it’s so important

because I think there is no right and wrong right you had a very interesting path to your career too and I think the

point is everybody needs to find what those bounds are that work for them and don’t work for them.

Very interesting you said that last part because the only reason I’m doing what I’m doing now is kind of similar to you.

So like I was in recruitment before and it started before the pandemic like or

just after but it was fully in person just a bit hybrid right and my goal I was in England was make money buy a

house move back to Cypress that was like I’m not going to stay in England forever because all my family’s here in Cyprus

and then two years go by and there’s something called golden handcuffs when you’re in recruitment it’s like you’ve got all these deals that you’re managing

and if you leave now the kind of commission that we’ve already got is going to go go out the So then I’m just

like drifting through life and then essentially I just had um I wrote about this online but

one of my grandparents passed away and I was like okay I need to go back home to Cypress. So I literally just went to

Cyprus. This was before the recruitment job and I was okay let me fix my military situation. Fix that. But then I

kind of told myself yeah I need to go back to Cypus but then did nothing. Then my other grandparent died and I was like

okay this is why am I here? I’ve not been had Christmas with family for like seven years and I just thought I need to

go back. So I decided to hand in my notice with the plan to go and become a personal trainer in Cypress and then

what ended up happening was I didn’t want to be a personal trainer in Cypress. I just wanted to go to Cypress and then had a chat with my employer and

then we came up with remote work. So the only reason I kind of made it happen remotely with that business is because I

just had that boundaries like I need to work remote from Cypress and then things started to happen. So I think similar to

you you’ve got that kind of requirement and then you realize there’s only a few ways it can work. I’m thinking why did

Tencent eventually or sorry was it Amazon games your first games job? Yes. So when I was at Amazon, I started

out in AWS and then I was able to convince them with the help of Ethan

Evans and and a number of other cool people there uh including my boss Josh Dodson.

My time at AWS had gone very very well. And so my bosses there were very supportive and they knew that I had the

games chops and so they were like come on guys like just trust us like he knows about it.

Give him a shot. And so and so yeah and so Amazon was very good to me and like

look like businesses make decisions. It’s it’s not personal but like at some point they decided they weren’t going to

have remote work and again that’s why I had to make the change out of Amazon and I was very fortunate that again Tencent

was supportive um and allowed us to you know be back home in Connecticut here with the family. So so it ended up

working out but I realized it’s becoming hard bit certainly harder these days. For sure. Okay. Interesting. So

for people at home who’ve felt what you felt, right? You’re talking thousands of

rejections, like why wouldn’t you stop at 100, a thousand,500? Like look, remote work just simply isn’t going to

happen, right? Um but you kept that going. Do you see that in people kind of

sending application after application? Like if I can be devil’s advocate here

after a thousand job rejections, I would be like, “Wait a minute. Is there something else that needs to change

rather than sending more applications?” So like when is too many applications

more of a problem versus like the thing you need to do to get a job? It’s a really good question. So

again, what worked for me, I think an important part of it for me is

I made a promise to myself and that promise was I was never ever going to give up on games, but I also had a

responsibility to take care of myself, have a job, have income, develop skills,

and so forth. And so the entire time that this was happening, I had other

work. I had work at investment banking first at Goldman Sachs. Then I was in graduate school for a while and then a

bunch of jobs of incremental increases in responsibility and so forth in first healthcare BD and strategy then tech BD

and strategy then games BD and strategy and so I have a strong point of view and

this is what I advocate to everybody in our community. Not right now doesn’t mean not forever.

But I also don’t think oh you I don’t and I don’t want people to hear this which is not what you’re saying but I

don’t want people to hear oh air amir applied to 2,000 jobs and in the meantime what didn’t have a job. I was

doing that while having a full-time job and I basically never stopped. And I would say that for some others while

this wasn’t my skill set because my primary skills are as you know a business person for some people it’s

like well while having another job they develop a game or they develop their portfolio and that completely works too.

So uh that’s a mindset that I think is is very reasonable. Yeah, I want to speak on that because I

was doing freelance recruitment where I was placing uni developers into jobs.

And the beauty of a recruiter is I’m kind of the filter to explain why this person’s amazing. And if I had someone

with a year career gap versus someone with everything the same, but that year career gap was changed with consultant

and he had just had a list of projects they worked on. even if they’re personal. You can see how if you put

these two side by side, we’ll take the person who appears active. But I think

what people don’t realize is appearing active doesn’t mean 40 hours a week. You could literally just be working on a

personal project to a certain stage and just write independent Unity developer.

You can package it in a certain way. And it’s more about giving the person who’s

about to take a chance on you the feeling of safety that this person’s not

idle hands. They’re moving and they’re doing things. And that might mean like we’ve seen with like cave bear games.

That’s a very good example where if you have time, you use a portion of it, not all of it, to show that you’re actively

and improving because well, everyone else that’s who you’re going up against and someone’s going to have that

portfolio experience, right? So I think it’s very important. It doesn’t need to be 40 hours a week, but definitely you

want to have activity and hopefully if it’s related to the industry like for you it was business development work. It

will definitely translate and for an artist for example, it could be you know projects which aren’t gaming related but

still art for example. That’s one point I want to make on that. Yeah. No 100%. And indeed when that

breakthrough came at 38 I assure you if I hadn’t been playing

a few thousand games, learning about games, reading about them, being on

forums, reading about video game history, etc., etc., etc. Like, I

treated it before the community even existed. I treated

doing the games thing as like another job. Like, not like, oh, I’m just going to play Call of Duty. Because in my

mind, I know this may sound a little bit silly, but like the way I kept my spirit

up is I told myself every day, every week, this is the week you’re going to break through. And if you’re going to

break through, what are you doing to break through? It’s not just going to happen by like luck. And so I always had

a regimented plan. Here’s what I’m going to read. Here’s what I’m going to play. I kept a spreadsheet of every game I

played by all the things that I thought about it and so forth. And so I took it

quite serious to be honest with you. Wow. Wow. Wow. Did not cuz your love for games comes through. Sometimes it comes

through so much and I’m like I don’t know what to do with this information. Like your love for Mario on LinkedIn is

unmatched, right? It’s like we’re talking dedicated videos with editing and I think you’re editing in as well.

So that’s like this is prime time for air to be like it definitely comes through and the fact that you documented

it as well. This obviously again when you’re taking someone side by side

you’re probably going to take a mirror. The person clearly loves games. They’re clearly going to put more of their afterwork time brain energy on the thing

because the passion is there. That’s a another big point. Like if you can show that you just absolutely love the industry and you think about it after

hours as well, then compared to someone who is trying to cash a check, it’s just a night and day difference.

No, you’re Thank you for saying that. And you know, it’s um it’s really, isn’t

it? It’s about showing versus telling. Like something I also talk to people

about all the time is like, look, it is great to say you’re passionate about games. That is awesome, right?

Definitely say that. But it’s also like to your point, it’s almost like you can’t miss. It’s just like pick

demonstrable examples of how that passion manifests itself that you could

hit somebody in the head with a rock and they’ll be able to pick up on. Yeah, for sure. 100%. Um, this brings me to

something I read earlier. So, I have this daily battle where I see a post of

someone saying they’ve given up on games or they’ve given up on searching or like this is my final post cuz I really want

a job and they have this line I’ve done everything I can

and then I just as I do I’m like okay I have information this person doesn’t I

did recruitment before I might be able to help. So, I go on their profile and then the only thing they’ve posted over

the last 3 months was about looking for a job. And when someone says they’ve done everything they can, I think they

mean they’ve done every application they could. They probably done networking or what have you, but then they’re not showing it on LinkedIn. And I’ve had

some real examples in my network where people from business development got laid off and they picked up a job after

a few weeks and I know for a fact LinkedIn helped them because they were already active and then when they did

apply for a job, I gave one person this advice. Just treat it like business development. Get a list of all the

people who could hire you and send them a nice video and he got a few interviews and then got a job. But you can imagine

the difference when you receive a video from someone and then you go check out who they are. They’ve been posting for months on the topic that they claim to

be an expert in. So when someone says I have done everything I can, I feel

horrible because then I this was the one I saw today had like 1,400 likes, like loads of comments saying best of luck.

And I’m like that’s not what you needed. You just needed I feel it’s like I’m torn because I I always stop myself from

commenting because I’m like someone’s going to take this the wrong way. And I don’t I don’t know if I should change that, but that’s something where I don’t

know what to do if I should do anything. But I don’t know if you’ve seen that in the community where someone’s says they’ve done everything. At least from

the outside, I’m like, but you haven’t what we said before showed that you know

what you’re talking about. I don’t know. It’s very interesting point. I mean, look, I struggle with this too because I

know we’re both very compassionate people also. Like let me kind of build up to this and give you a really good

response on this because I think this is a very very important question. So

I’ve never gotten a job in my career through a cold application. Every job I’ve gotten even my first job out of

college was because of relationships built with other people. And look like my father was a physician. We came from

a very comfortable family and I’m very grateful to the world to God that I was in that situation. But nothing that I

got was of some old boys or old woman’s network or some connections. My dad didn’t know anybody in games. My mom

didn’t know anyone in tech, etc., etc. They were all relationships both in tech, healthcare, games I built up from

nothing. Now, relationships isn’t the only piece of it. But when you say what

you’re saying, Harry, that is spoton. where my mind goes is

everything in life to me is about um it’s about

brand and about visibility. And what I mean by this, I want to be very specific, is I always I like to say to

people something like this, which is no one’s going to find out that you’re an available candidate like by accident.

Um, if I was a random recruiter or hiring manager and I was actually like, “Okay,

today I want to figure out what person I should hire for this killer role. How is somebody going to hear about you?” Well,

if you make one big post that like goes viral, great. That’s one touch point. But now, what if you’re posting

whatever, like you said, three times a week, you’re commenting on other people’s stuff. You have a page, you

have a YouTube, you have a Tik Tok, you have whatever. But the sensitivity part of it is this butts up against the fact

that you and I know that percentages are just so low and doing any of these

things is so indefinite, right? It’s like you could do all this social media

stuff for like three years. And uh you know events are so important too.

Those obviously have a cost and are hard to go to, but they matter also in terms of exposure and meeting people.

But even if you do all that stuff, it’s not some like oneto-one relationship.

It’s just much more amorphous than that. But what I do know is every person has

some predisposed chance to getting a job. And I know this because of data.

Unfortunately, if you’re a five to 15year veteran of the games industry,

you by far have the highest chances. If you’re an early career person with no experience, you just have very, very

tough odds. And so, what I’ve really tried to stress to people is instead of thinking about it, oh, amb I did what

you said, but I didn’t get a job. That’s not how it works. It’s what are your

odds of getting the job doing those things versus not doing those things. And if you do those things, the odds are

going to be much higher, but they are still very low odds. Which is why you also need to look at non-games things.

Also, I found when you have non-game things or better put like an income,

that’s a massive mental energy. That’s like the brain, if it’s a garage, it’s

not cluttered with how to eat. It’s like, okay, that is done. Now I have this certain amount of energy and time

which will dedicate to the job hunt or so on. That will make a huge difference. And also, I want to be clear because I

do this for a living, like LinkedIn posts at the start. It’s brutal, but it doesn’t have to be like once or twice a

week. We’re not talking about a full-time job here. And to your point, Emir, I come from this from a business

development and we do a lot of outreach. And the advice I keep giving to people

and people have asked me like, okay, how would I find a job? What I found is a lot of them do the

applications 10 or 20 and then they try to network

and then it’s done. I’m like okay cool. But then when we understand the the actual numbers here

I’ve actually done this recommendation and maybe I shouldn’t do this but I’m going to say it. I basically say go to

Amia’s profile go to the spreadsheet of mentors and find all the mentors which are in your discipline who are currently

employed. message all of them a very nice message saying hey I’m in this situation I would love to have 15

minutes of your time to cover this it’ll be a pleasure to chat to you if not good

timing no worries you will probably get 30% of those people give you a nice

reply and about maybe one or two a month will probably say yes now when you go on

that call and you say great here’s my current job hunt please tell me what are people actually looking for right now so

I can better change my application My point here is you need a feedback loop cuz if you do this for 2 3 years

and you’re getting likes and impressions that’s not a feedback loop that’s an indication that more people are seeing the content but are you influencing

anyone? You don’t know. So you need to speak to the people who actually are people you want to influence which in

this case are people currently employed in your discipline and an easy way to find that is using your spreadsheet because then you can get a feedback loop

great can we have this chat uh in a month’s time again and I can show you what has changed and that way boom now

we’ve got a situation where you kind of have a coach who can tell you this is

what we look for if you change this your portfolio link doesn’t work by the way like all this little stuff that you

wouldn’t really know because logistic ally it is not possible for a game studio especially today to give feedback

because I’ve seen what it’s like on the recruiter side it’s way too expensive it’s just not practical so like to your

point having an income or anything but whatever is possible to kind of occupy

your mind and then spend the rest of the time kind of ticking away and improving metrics when it comes to like my job

hunting ability I feel like that is a more sustainable way of doing things.

Yeah. No, I appreciate you doing that. That’s great advice that you’re giving people. And you know, the point is

I often think something my parents taught to me is they taught to me to think about between

alternate available options. Many times in life, you’d like options, but that’s

not actually what’s on the table. And again, I say this out of great sympathy because it is messed up being out of

work for a long time. At some point, it’s hard to think straight. I understand all of this. But what does

not exist in this environment is some elusive shortcut that somehow like

I or you or other people aren’t sharing with applicants that shortcircuits all

of this. and in particular about relationship building. Even when I first started doing some of

this work in late 2022, it still wasn’t so crazy where like

company X has a job. I could write them and be like, “Here are

five applicants and whatever be who are looking, they’d be like, “No problem. Send them over.” They might even tell me

to send all five of them over to have a conversation. No problem. Now,

and this has been true for quite some time, and I keep very careful track of this to respect people’s preferences. I

would say a huge percentage, if not all the people I know are like, we just can’t do that anymore. There’s just so

many applicants, so many inbounds that unless it’s a very small sliver of like

a few people maybe like every few months that like you have to see this person,

we’ll doformational if we see them at an event. Of course, they’re always free to reach out, but basically they’re like

there’s a process. And then now the people who get the attention and can rise to the top and I think this is a

misnomer. I think a lot of people again think that’s exclusively for some old

boys or old girls club of only cronies who all know each other and that is not

true. But the way you get into that position isn’t one email or two emails

and being like hey how are you building that kind of relationship where you get

on rise up can be one two three years of

content and relationship building. You say that to people, they’re like, “Well, what are you telling me? I shouldn’t get a job for three years.” And I’m like,

“No, that’s why you try to get anything you can to pay the bills while doing

that at the same time.” And I often say to them, if you can beat 17 years, which is what it took me, then

you did it faster than I did. Yeah, for sure. And the content thing as well. It’s more like

I did an interview way back when it was with blanking on the name, horrible, but

essentially he had a spreadsheet and he wanted to get his first recruitment job. So he had all the people he had to speak

to who were hiring recruiters. So it was a head of recruitment at EA, so on and so forth. And then he just made sure to

follow up with them every few months. Not by saying, “Hey, you still hiring?” He’s saying, “Hey, me again. This is

what I’ve changed. This is what I’ve been working on. Is there any is there any movement in you know this role because you told me

to reach out after three or six months and then wherever possible if they manage to see them at an inerson event

happy days but also once they’ve connected on LinkedIn if you come across as someone who’s like not going to be

chasing them down they will read your message every couple months and probably have a very genuine consideration do we

actually need this person’s resources right now and if they don’t they can probably tell you someone who else who

may be interested because then you’ve plugged into five people’s direct hiring needs but then their friends hiring

needs which is how I got a lot of my placements. So when I tried to place a uni developer somewhere my most fruitful

way to do that near the end of kind of my recruitment career was ask all my uni developers like hey who do you know who

would be good for this because now I’ve got the 20 top uni developers networks thinking about it and then boom and I

found that that’s how a lot of hiring is done right now especially in business development. Oh my god. So I’ve done a

lot of I’m going a bit of a tangent here but I think it’s very important. A lot of the service providers when I ask them

how they hire their business developer it’s literally through an internal network thing thinking oh who do I know

that would be good for BD this person will be good cool like no job post no nothing and then that person literally

doesn’t know how to do BD but they don’t know that they don’t know and then after 6 12 months they then figure out and

then they don’t hire BD again. So there’s been always this need for BD, but there’s no public job post. There’s

no LinkedIn post or so forth. So like a lot of the jobs, they call it the hidden job market is there, but it’s just not

advertised. It’s true. And this stuff slices thinner

than people think. Also, like a thing I also tell people is they’re like, “Oh,

that’s easy for you to say, Amir, you have like a very big following.” And I’m like, I know I do, but one, I didn’t

start with that. Three years ago, it was 4,000 people or something. But two,

you don’t need hundreds and hundreds of thousands of followers. You just need a few people in the sub area that you’re

in to care. Like one example I often give people is I have a very good friend and I know you see a lot of her content

too. Cat Craig, right? Cat’s great. Cat does such great stuff in UXUI. And now

she does have a much bigger following. But for a long time, even as she was growing her following, anybody I knew in

UX or UI knew who Cat was because like you don’t need, you’re not trying to be like Kim Kardashian. You just want

people in your sub field to at least have heard about you more than someone else. And so it’s not that you need to

have Mr. Beast. You just need a little bit more of oomph than the next candidate.

Yeah, for sure. And funny fact, I’ve got the analytics of all the founders that

we write for, like we ghostrite for, and every time I look at like what’s the competition, it’s just a ghost town.

There’s no one who’s like posting more than a couple times a month in a lot of these niches. So, we’re talking like I’m

now one of one now cuz everyone might post, but it might be like an advert, like we’re going to this conference, so they’re not actually posting content.

So, you’d be so surprised cuz on LinkedIn, you only see what’s posted. Like, but if you had like a heat map of

like niches where there’s not a lot of content, there’s so few actual content creators in the games industry on

LinkedIn, it’s not even funny. Like, there’s so little. That’s funny. That’s very funny. Yeah.

Can you take me back to Thanksgiving 2022 where this all began like you were chatting to your wife and then now

that’s the reason why we’re speaking today because of that conversation. Could you take us back there? Yeah, definitely. you know, that few

months brought together a lot of these threads that we’ve been talking about. Now, certainly the thread we’ve been

talking about about my own experience and challenging challenges uh getting into games has always been top of mind

for me. And before the cuts even happened, I had been thinking seriously for a few

years of like some way of giving back, but I wasn’t sure what that would be.

And as you mentioned in our intro, um I had figured that probably the first

thing would be something Excely, data, that type of thing because that was a skill set I had built up over some

amount of time. And so when those layoffs started coming and I saw people

I knew getting laid off and it was juxtaposed against the holidays, that

really hurt. And like the image of imagining that this is something I’ve carried through the whole way with the

community which is I really try and I mean this sincerely sometimes I will

just close my eyes for a little bit when I have a quiet moment or I’m on the couch and I try to imagine what other

people in the community who are in various situations feel like and that really lifts my energy to keep going if

I ever feel tired or whatever. Anyway, I was like, I need to do something about this to help people. And so, the initial

goal was two things. One was to try to make a list of games jobs that was the

most comprehensive but in a very specific sense in that a lot of places

have and continue to have excellent listings of that info but it’s not apples to apples because the way they

categorize and list jobs it’s not quite that easy to look at it single pane of

glass and so getting that comprehensive with you know over 3,000 4,000 companies

standardizing and figuring out how to standardize the functions. That was a lot of work and and uh and I think

thankfully that helped a lot of people and we continue to have that resource. And the second thing which you teased

earlier was like, well, I wonder if I just ask the community who will sign up

as a coach, how many people will we get? And I figured we get five, 10, 50,

whatever. And you know, now I’m very proud to say we have 2500 coaches across mentoring,

CV, LinkedIn, art portfolios, mock interviews, and we also have a subgroup of 50 coaches now just on the Discord.

And so all my credit and love to those people who provide that and yeah, it’s

all just kept rolling forward. And I think what I love about it is in that Thanksgiving moment where it

started was getting the community’s feedback about like let me not assume what you want to hear. You tell me what

you need and I’ll build against that. And that is constantly changing. And like in 2022 2023 when things weren’t so

terrible and a lot of people hadn’t done the basic stuff like their CV, LinkedIn,

their you know their here’s how to find the jobs. I think that was the most relevant. As time has gone on,

I think people have kind of more people are mastering that at least certainly in games itself which is why over time I’ve

realized we have to constantly change. That’s why now I put a big focus on how

do you find non-games work if you’re in games. I put a lot of emphasis on all the data and analytics that we can

uniquely collect because it flows through our community. I put a lot of emphasis on events where we’ve done, you

know, over 2,000 free tickets for people. So, it’s constantly evolving.

Yeah. I remember the events as well when you first did that. I was like, “Ah, boom.” I I I had a few nice messages

from people who I think it was to Was it Gamescom the one I gave tickets for? I’m trying to remember. It was a long time

ago. It’s Yeah, I think Yeah, Gamescom. Yeah. And now we do Yeah. official partners

for GDC and for Gamescom and Yeah, I know. It’s been um It’s been really good. A and we’ve been trying to really

make it more global because I know for a while people were it was a good feedback again community feedback. We had too

many events just in North America, just in California. I think thank thankfully we’ve been solving that a lot. Yeah.

Really cool. Sweet. I’m actually working on my own event business side. So I’ve

done 10 events now. So I will be sponsoring the marquee at Gamescom, but I’ve been trying to formalize the whole

event side. So I’m actually hiring my by the time this podcast out, it will be a

few be a month later so I can say this, but I’ll be hiring my other brother and really dedicating on doing more gaming

events. So, I’m excited to kind of do that space in 2026. I’m wondering,

you’ve been to a lot of events. Any tips for me as a new soon to be kind of more event host, more formal?

I think too often people are focused on like they need to

have an overly scripted program. I think one of the things I like already

about the types of gettogethers you do which you can bring that same

energy feeling to the events and energy is I feel like the best events I’ve seen is

you get interesting people in the room you maybe have one or two speakers who say something interesting and then you

just leave everybody alone and I know that’s like not the most exciting exciting thing because people are like, “Oh, we should have a band or we should

have games or we should I I don’t even know. I could make up all kinds of things.” And I’m like, “Just keep it really simple. Interesting. People want

to talk and learn from one another.” I think that I think that’s it. Yeah. I’m working I did one in

Manchester. My idea was 15minute talks only and then one big round table and

then I did speed networking before the unofficial networking. And the feedback

I got from that was speed networking was good. should be have a louder mic or have a little buzzer so people can hear

when they say swap. And people actually enjoyed the free form

fireside chats more than the 15-minute talks which is again like no agenda just me chatting to someone like this

basically like a public. So I was thinking maybe do a couple of those the speed networking and then boom now you

have your whole evening you can kind of have the networking and then go from there. So no interesting

that’s interesting. Yeah. Great. So I want to speak how do you manage everything? So I’ve recently been

on a productivity journey like I recently went from having

meetings any time of the day. Now I only have them in the afternoons. I went from tracking my task. I got I hated my

tracker. Now I have a new tracker and I’m managing to track my time. So yeah, how do you track your time? How do you

go from one spreadsheet but now you got full-time job, you got a Discord community, you got all of that. So how

do you like avoid burning out while doing all these things and new things? So for me what’s always worked for me is

two big things which I has always break into smaller things. One is

every month or so. I used to do it a little bit more frequently when the community started but once a month is about enough. I literally make an Excel

grid of every day of the week and basically block out time. I assume that

you know some parts are easy right? I know from like 8 to 9 you take the kids from school. I know work is probably

from 9 to 6 we do 9 to5 9 to 5:30 do stuff for the children and then back to

work in the evening etc. But where it gets more nuanced is

trying to back into anything that isn’t time with the children and work. Exactly

how much time everything takes and then putting it into the workbook and actually making sure at least a

conceptual level knowing that life never works that cleanly especially with children. Have I taken on too much? So

to to dive deeply into you know besides the family and relationships and all that which is the most important and

work after that um one I made a decision

when we started the discord cuz initially just my friend Justin Williams and then all the other lead mods and

other mods as we built it out. I was like I am going to trust the mods to run

the entire show. So I don’t do anything related to the discord. The only thing that I do for the Discord is I I

obviously check in with them all the time. I’m briefed on anything that’s important and I occasionally make

announcements for like major things. Otherwise, they handle that and we’re in

very regular touch. So, you’re like marketing as well. So, you just market the Discord, then you have people managing it rather than the

community manager. Yeah. because I’m not a Discord expert and I have enough trust in them that

like I know we’re very aligned on what community standards are and so that’s a big help. I also have a steering group

including our mods but some other people who really help me. So like Desiree Renone helps with all the branding and

websites and she’s great. Um I have Tim and Audrey who help us kind

of like chiefs of staff. I have another person who helps with like comms and PR and so like all of these things are

there to help. As far as the brass tax of the the like the posting and the resources and so forth, I

constantly ask myself, is what I’m producing so differentiated that is

worth my time to keep producing it entirely myself? For example,

for the games jobs workbook, I made a really good relationship with Mayon Grover and the Outskal people. I like my

very much and trust his team very much and they do great work. So, they were able to help me with a data pull to

marry what I do with the games jobs workbook for like weekly updates so that I could

focus on doing what that original workbook was that you probably remember like once every one to two months as

like a reference and I now can reconcile it took a while their workbook anyway.

Keeps a product that’s 95 100% the same saves a lot of time. Um, as time has

gone by, I’ve entrusted some of the resources to other members of the team. For example, just to pick one example,

Tim Wood like does our LinkedIn premium trials now because I trust them to do it. And for the posting itself, and I

think this is the most important part and the messages, I get a lot of messages. So, I easily

get some weeks thousands of messages a week. I respond to every single person who

writes as long as they write me a personalized message and it’s not hey like sir madam or some like spam

garbage. Part of this is I have a number of

form messages that are very polite. Not one. and I have like 15 of them and I

kind of categorize the messages and have gotten good at basically blasting through it and making sure I have

something that I would consider a professional and respectful response to every person especially because I know

at this point 80 to 90% of them ask the exact same questions what are the resources what can I do and so forth

finally I really set bound oh and I write 70 80% of the content over the

weekend in bursts I do most of the work after I’ve finished work in the late evening and after the kids and my wife

have gone to sleep and I put boundaries on what I won’t will and won’t do. So I

can’t do individualized help for anybody. It’s just not scalable. That’s why we have a community. So I tell them

I can’t and and this is a small one but it matters. So I know best practice

which you do very well by the way is responding to anybody who comments on

your posts. A long time ago, I decided I just don’t have the time. So, I put a

like or an emote on every single comment so people know that I’ve read it, but I only put a comment rarely on something

that I think that is important. So, that’s it. And I can manage I can manage

my share of the community work in about 15 to 20 hours a week, which is a lot of work on top of a job and three kids, but

it’s the one main thing I do outside of my job and the children and some time for games and personal

life and whatever. It’s manageable. Nice. There’s a few things there. So, it felt like you’re not slow to find

something that’s repeatable, then find someone you trust, and then delegate. Yes. Uh, it took me a long time to build

that comfort, but now that I have it, I do. And I try to because I’ll give you

an here’s an example, Harry. Right. This is a great great example. Great great question.

I think job listings at this point are highly commoditized. Everybody has job

listings everywhere. And I think if you’re going to add something that’s value additive, it has to be a pretty

high bar of what you’re going to do. So, so

I feel like the cadence that I described of doing the old workbook about every

two months and having something that is 95% as good that I can do with some help from my and giving them the duke credit

that they deserve. I feel like that ROI versus time is something people

often don’t think about enough versus something like the community coaching which I feel like is worth all the time

because I actually think it’s really differentiated and I don’t think anybody else has anything quite like that.

And have you have have you seen it working like what’s working right now in the community? Who are people who are the ones getting jobs? Have you seen any

patterns? Yeah, definitely. You know, it’s interesting. It’s almost like going back to the question we had a little while

ago, which is um so there’s two there’s a I don’t like

using the word fair, but I would say that what is happening is happening for two reasons. Instead of fair, let’s say

factors people can control and factors people can’t control. Um,

there is no question that the data regularly shows those with five to 15

years experience are set to benefit the most in placing back into jobs in the

industry. I think that I’m seeing hiring managers and

recruiters become more cautious and I think that it’s probably to the loss of early career people and people who are

very late in career 45 plus 50 plus these types of things and so there are

things like that and also like if you happen to live in one of the major hubs

where the hiring is although that itself also is changing you have an advantage compared to someone over just basic job

So those are real factors that are hard to control. Here’s some real factors though that you can control which I

would argue are as or even more important than those which is the entire conversation you and I had about like

have you really tried everything? I find that if I take as best as I can

turn it into data and I do this and talk to our community all the time. Was this

person like an engaged person? Do they have any social media presence? Do they

have a LinkedIn profile that’s filled out well and thoroughly? Do they engage in comments and posts? Do they go to

events? As like an extra bonus, are they something that you or I or the average person would say is even like a top 500

influencer in games on any platform? These things are huge bonuses. And I

even found this. If you have any relationship whatsoever to the hiring

manager recruiter for a job that you could describe as meaningful, you are 15 to 20 times more likely to get the job

than someone that has no relationship whatsoever. Which is crazy what you just said, 15 to

20 times. And it’s true. And I want to just touch on this a little bit. Like

there’s a reason because it’s kind of hard to explain, but

it’s the word nepotism, right? Like why does that exist? And I think there’s a reason where if you’re trying to hire

someone, would you hire someone you don’t know versus someone you do know? All things remained equal. Let’s say for

this example, you hire someone you do know. Why is that happening? It’s because you’ve kind of removed some of

the risk involved in that this person probably is what they say they are. They

haven’t lied to me and they’ve worked with me or someone in the past and it was okay. versus someone who’s there’s a

question mark. So with all things equal, what I find is that people misunderstand sometimes is you don’t need to be like

the brother to get this kind of check mark of approval. It’s almost like are

you just a normal human being in the DMs? Have you met me in person? Have you sent a nice email? Was it personalized?

Were you just spamming? Cuz then you now go into ah this is a real person. like they have some element of

trust versus this the person who is a question mark and I find like that is massive and it doesn’t take a lot. It

could take a referral that’s enough to be like ah if someone’s vouched for this person and I know this person who’s

vouched that’s a big difference. It’s like it doesn’t take heaven and earth to become this bucket.

No, definitely not. That’s really great. And the paraphrase of what you said, a

fun way of expressing this that Ethan Evans says all the time, which I really like, is he often, to your point, thinks

of those imaginary two piles of like the whole applicant pile and the people who

are going to get that phone screen to move on in the process. And he imagines a person hypothetically reading through

that pile and seeing, for example, Ethan’s CV and knowing him and looking

at the picture and going, “Oh, Ethan.” And it’s like literally to your point

even just recognizing the person at all and it not

being like a negative connotation that’s like often enough to get you into the second pile. And it’s like you

I think I also think people think too much about jumping ahead five steps of like am I going to get the job? And I’m

like just get to the loop and then you can worry about getting the job. Yeah. or even just like a reply like

they might have recognized you and now given you more energy to give a reply or what have you so you can understand and

take that with you. Yeah. Is there anything you want to get into here? Um I wanted to touch on boundaries

a little because I feel like ah actually one point. Do you use any tools for your LinkedIn? Do you use any inbox

management tools or anything or you just go in raw LinkedIn traditional? I do it raw. All raw.

So much time you can save. I’m not talking about automation. I’m just talking about like just I might show you

after the call. But yeah, the fact that I know the reason the the only reason I didn’t is I used to have one tool that

helped just a little bit as like a third-party thing. So that like like queuing up messages and handling flow

and so forth. And then I got my LinkedIn account got flagged for like a security

thing for being a bot and it locked me out for like a week and it sucked because it was a week when people needed

help the most and so that like really spooked me. So we can talk offline if there’s suggestions. I always tell

people I’ll hear it out but that really spooked. Yeah. Yeah. I I had it happen as well. It’s it’s more about profile actions I

found. But I’m not talking automation. I’m just talking about and making your UI a bit easier when it comes to the

DMs. If you get a thousand a week that it might make it a bit prettier. Um, cool air. So, in terms of I wanted to

touch on this. So, you get some negativity. I’ve

funny enough, I have probably had like four or five negative things ever

happen. And what I tend to have as a mantra is like block and see you later.

Um, that’s kind of like my way of going through things. But it’s interesting for

the clients that are female that I’ve ghostridden for. Oh my god,

it’s hard. Like they get hate. They get some weird hate and it’s like clearly un

not nice. And it it just happens a bit more often where I can notice it. And

I’ve seen you talk about it just from sheer volume, right? 100,000 1% of 100,000 is still a lot of people. So

I want to make this practical a little bit maybe. So for people at home who are kind of scared of putting themselves out there because they might be afraid of

what people will think about them like you’ve posted despite what people like

I’ve seen like they are negative there’s negativity that comes your way right and that’s a price that you

ultimately have to pay like kind of what’s been your journey through that and maybe any advice for anyone who’s afraid of putting themselves out there.

Yeah, it’s definitely a tough topic and I think that

let’s let’s be honest about it at the outset, right? If you do eventually achieve some size and scope, depending

upon what type of content you provide, it is unlikely that you won’t have some

pretty hard bullets thrown your way that require a certain toughness to absorb.

What I try to tell myself is first and foremost, the reason I’m doing this stuff, as you

know, not that there’s anything wrong with this, isn’t for money. Although many people also make money on things

they do and are very, very good people, but that’s not the motivator. I don’t do it to win like public acclaim. I don’t

do it to win a popularity contest. I do it because I want to help other people.

And at the end of the day, nobody within

with maybe like I can count on one hand in three years people within the games

community who at least to my knowledge some people can say things anonymously has ever said anything to me that was

nasty. Even at the worst where for like a few weeks as you might remember after TGA it was very nasty for a little while

and it thankfully ended 99% plus 99.999%

of people in our industry have always been very supportive and warm towards me.

Many people have many reasons and I could guess what some of these are in my opinion of why they behave this way.

Some people see me having entered the industry very late and they think

there’s some level of jealousy of why they’re not getting notoriety or getting awards or stuff like that even though

that’s not why I do it. Some people can’t possibly fathom that somebody would do all these things just to try to

be nice towards other people. There must be some other angle of something that someone is going to or it’s too good to

be true. I think a lot of people have been burned in their lives. They find that hard to believe.

Some people have even told me, I don’t know, but enough people have said this to me where I believe maybe it’s a

thing. Maybe it’s because of the way I look. Maybe because my name’s Amir instead of Adam and like I’m of a

different background. Maybe that’s a triggering thing for some people. I don’t know. I want to speak on that, Amir. I think

it lowers the

threshold where someone would say something cuz I’ve noticed that in my world where female verse male for some

reason when it’s a female people are a lot more quick to say something negative. It’s almost like

there’s less of a reason not to. I don’t know how else to say it. So I wonder if it’s a Yeah, it’s a weird one. It’s it’s

horrible, but I think there’s something to Yeah. And so it’s tough. It’s like, you know, um the rational part of me, and

I’ve gotten better and better and better and better at this over three years, is like again, 99.999%

of everything is positive, it’s wonderful, it’s great, but it’s tough. It’s tough when like which which you

shouldn’t do by the way, people watching this, when you Google your name for some earnest reason and there’s still like

residual things of people saying garbage about you or on YouTube or on Reddit or whatever it is. I particularly might say

like I als I particularly don’t appreciate the comments that were about

how at TGA it was some shock that like I worked in the industry or like I had a

job where I do rather than being some like streamer or something like that as if that matters for anything you know

like I’ve never worked in M&A I’ve never laid anybody off personally so it’s just

Like I’m bringing up a grabag of options for you in the audience to say.

Sometimes it’s just garbage that like people are perpetuating things that are lies. Some of it I’ve even seen about

our community where I’m sure you’ve seen this as well and you know otherwise, but people who are like, “Oh, it’s just a

spreadsheet.” And all they do is they make one spreadsheet and they don’t have any idea how our community even works or

like what we do. And so it’s just like that’s life, man. Like we’re you and I

are doing it on social media. People treat each other a hundred times worse in real situations in the world to each

other’s faces. Like we have genocide. We have like hatred in the world. We have all kinds of problems. Like

at the end of the day, this stuff is just words and it’s not going to hurt me. To be honest with you, the only times when I really actually care is

when people say things about my family. And that’s the type of thing that I report to the police that I think is

completely unacceptable. But anything else, you just learn to get tougher. You focus on the mission and you you have a

predictive matrix in your head of just blocking and moving on. For sure. And you

I think you pointed to something there where you said it was less than five people who were like in the industry.

And I think it’s a important thing always to note. I had this conversation with someone who kind of got this like

their first hate message like who left it. Do you care about their opinion? Cuz

then we usually see there’s something wrong in their life or something or there’s they might even just we know

they can’t have the context. So like they have personified you as this thing which they already

don’t like and they just put you in that bucket. Therefore, it doesn’t really hold ground like that negativity. So, I

think it’s just important to because it is hard and I it’s actually one of the main objections like ah what will people

going to think when I post? Who am I to share this? I get this a lot. I’m like what the hell? Like you have the most

cool story ever and then they see like yeah I don’t want to be cringe and it’s like you are you go on stage and you

talk at these conferences but they don’t want to share it on LinkedIn. So it’s a genuine fear that people have and I think it’s important to note that the

people who think that do we care? Do we care about that opinion? Yeah. And it’s a business too. Like the

point is, and I don’t mean this cynically. I’m just being this again, my honest opinion. The same way that like

you have a business, the same way that my business on LinkedIn is running a community, some people their platform is

based around basically picking people or topics and criticizing those things. And that’s how they drive engagement and

make their source of income. It kind of makes me sad that that’s like the way it is, but that’s a thing. And um I think

the most important thing is that when people target you for these types of things to not engage because like that

never goes the way you want. And so I’ve learned basically just to ignore everything. Yeah. Yeah. I would agree there. And I think

there’s some good advice for people um who are worried about that like to be like it is definitely it exists but it

tends to be the people that it comes from. We don’t let it affect us because of

kind of where that feedback’s coming from, so to speak. All righty. Amir, I

want to ask you, is there anything from our conversation that you feel like you would want to spend a bit more time on?

Anything for anyone listening who want to break into the industry, learn more about kind of what you do that you want

to kind of leave people with? The only other thing I want to say that we had mentioned in pre-con conversation that’s

important and I particularly want to mention this in this conversation with you is that there’s a point of something

I often talk about that I think a small number of people maybe misunderstand and

I want to make sure everyone’s crystal clear on it now which is what we were talking about about everybody doing as

much as they can to put good back into the world and in the situations they’re in.

I emphasize for our community that we do this, you know, as a second job that I do for not doing it for pay because for

our specific situation, for what I’m specifically doing, that’s a model and setup that I believe is the right model

for what we’re doing. many people that I know like you like um

friends I have I’m picking things randomly off the top of my head people at like Zebra Partners which is a very

well-known PR and like communications firm many people I know who are recruiters like Lizzie Mintis and so

forth and I could pick 10 more people I have hundreds and hundreds of people top of mind for me who my Grover who run

for-profit businesses who in some cases are in nonprofits put that on aside for a second. Some

people decide that their commitment is doing something like this is an entire full-time gig alongside their job like

me. For some people, it’s just putting nice comments on people’s posts to kind

of lift them up or to give good advice on LinkedIn. I just want everyone to always ask

themselves for my situation and what I’m doing and every person has a right to

find what that is for their job and also their non-job. Are you within the windows of whatever

you can doing the most to be positive and uplifting and helping of other

people and finding those windows and I think you do a fantastic job of that. I

think we have many many friends on social media who do that as well. And I just wanted to take a minute to clarify

for people that when I say these types of things or emphasize that we’re like a zero-profit community, even in like my

tagline, that is not to suggest that is the one model. It is my encouragement to

everybody to find the most positive within their model. Yeah, I appreciate it. And

it’s funny you mentioned that. It got me thinking about when I started I used to do a lot of live streams on LinkedIn

live now just because the business has grown I’ve not done them as much and I’ve kind of thought huh cuz a lot of

people quoted those live streams when I kind of helped them um and they’re

technically you know right they’re for free definitely helps the business but to your point

the more because I’m just thinking with my current business I Am I putting any am I

leaving anything on the table? And I always am. It’s weird because like

I can do more. I could do more podcasts. I could do more live streams. I could do more.

Time’s always time is always against us. But like you’ll find the opportunities organically. Like for example, I would

love when you start doing events to be like I’m totally making up a number. Five people at the event will be like

unemployed people in the industry who are going to get to go to that event and enjoy it for free. I’ve done that in an

unspoken way. It’s almost like Yeah. could I do more? It’s it’s I It’s It’s

tricky. It is tricky. Like, you know what would be really cool? You lean into this thing that we’re doing.

Again, these are all to your point, these are all things that you’ve done, but it’s all about just like all of us changing the dials a little bit, right?

Yeah. Let’s let’s turn up the dial more on this is what I’ll leave as our fun challenge between the two of us, of

which I, you know, I’m still trying to push a number of things on this front. continuing to turn up that dial on how

to find non-games work for gamers. I know I mentioned this like Captain Ahab

with like the whale, but I’m like I’m like truly obsessed with this topic because I believe it’s very very

important and is only going to grow in importance. Do you have time? I’ve got one minute to speak on that. Can I?

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. I just had this conversation on Sunday. So listen to this. I was at a christening on Sunday and in Cyprus when

you do a christening it’s like a few hundred people. we will get a dinner. And I was with my auntie and her

daughter and they both need a job. So, one of them was in childare before, the other one hadn’t had any other job apart

from um detailing cars with her husband. So, they wanted just a normal job. And

then they said, “I just we just can’t find a job. Like, do you know any jobs out there, Harry? Do you know what to do?” And my grandfather said, “Look, can

you help them find a job?” So, I was like, “Okay, I’m with my recruiter hat on.” I was like, “Okay, what have we done so far?” And they said, “Uh, I I

need to earn this amount of money. I can’t find anything.” I’m like, “Okay, we got all the normal jobs in the area.

We got, you know, waiter, all this stuff.” Like, “Yeah, never done that before.” Like, “Okay, what about

barista?” She’s like, “Yeah, no one’s going to trust me.” I’m like, “Okay, wait a minute.” I move on to my um

cousin. She’s done child care before and she did it as a part-time assistant over summer, but she was one of the best

persons there. And then she said, Yeah, I don’t know. I want to do childare. I’m like, okay, what have we done? It’s

like, yeah, I need a CV. I don’t know if I need to to do a course on it. I was like, have you checked? Like, no, but I don’t have a laptop, so I can’t do my

CV. I’m like, okay. So, then we zoomed out and we realized the current situ,

get the CV, something, and then go and ask people. And then I asked my brother who just left because he joined my

business last year. It’s like, hey, you used to work at a place called Edom’s Yard. Are they hiring? He’s like, “Actually, two people have left and they

will probably have you.” I was like, “Great. So, now the only thing you need to do now is get a CV and get a

recommendation for the midi and then go in person.” So, long story short, cuz I’m starting to hire now. Hiring is so

time consuming. Like, I’m hiring a writer. I didn’t put a job post at it cuz I just asked a friend and I’ve got

20 people who are rating from a writing task from me. I’m never going to advertise that job. So when people say

they struggle a lot to find work at, for example, fast food restaurants or what have you, if you want to guarantee a

job, if you just go in person to like 20 of these, look sharp and just say, “Hey,

this is the work I’ve done. I’m going to show up on time. I’m going to do all of this, you’re guaranteed, just guaranteed

to get a conversation rather than just posting in the abyss.” Because if you just catch someone at the

right time, it’s just a numbers game. So, at least in my Cypress community,

like Edom’s Yard’s not going to be posting out job ads because she said, “Hey, I’ve applied to every ad I saw.” I’m like, “There’s like four ads online,

but there’s like so many businesses struggling for people right now.” It’s like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just go in person. It’s basically my

main for that. I I love that. Well, you know, it’s interesting. I feel like the full circle

of that of everything we’ve been talking about today is of course when the industry was smaller and certainly when

I started my career in 2004 and you had paper applications and you could just like show up to events there was a lot

of that in fact I didn’t go to um I of course wasn’t even in the industry until

2019 or 2020 trying to say 2020 and I didn’t go to GEC until you know last

year but what a lot of people tell me is that before things got so crazy. You

would just go to GDC and there’d be recruiters from all the companies. I don’t know to what extent this is true or not. And they would take resumes and

like ask about roles right there. Now, of course, that situation has changed, but if what I’ve heard about it is

accurate, I feel like the way you try to dissolve that is all the stuff we’ve been talking about about just trying to

get yourself in front of people. It’s not as quick, but like it’s just about that motion

repetitively. Yeah. And to to your point, uh, you know, Jagex, they make Runescape. So, at Develop Brighton, the

only reason they were there was to show off their new game and hire. They had about

50 people at their booth and they were spending all their time. We’re talking about senior 15 year engineers, one like

producer, the hiring manager. They were just giving everyone advice, advice, advice. Do this, apply on the website.

Do this and apply on the website. Like, they were just doing that. Like, God bless them. And they were doing that from like morning till night and they

asked them like, “Hey, is this what you want?” He’s like, “Yes, this is exactly what we want.” Like, great. So, there are still some companies who are hiring

who you can find in person. And the best part here is you’re not looking for an interview. You’re looking for feedback

because then you take their feedback, you do exactly what they told you in that feedback, and then you come back if

you’re not already ready, which is always the best option. But the second option is they’ve given you feedback, you go and do it, and then like great,

the likelihood of you getting an interview is crazy good now. And it’s very hard to say no to someone in person.

Oh, Harry, this was so much fun. Thank you very very much. This is uh really really nice and uh a really nice cast

and and I really enjoyed it. Okay. Thank you, Amir. How can people find you and the resources? Yes. So, to make things very simple, if

ever in doubt, my full names.com

sat V like Victor.com. all one word. Everything that we do from

our LinkedIn to our Discord to my post to the website, it’s all on the site. If

any concerns with buttons and so forth, Harry has so kindly put it up there and he’ll scroll down to the bottom for you

and show you that you can see all the lovely resources, a video that explains them all, uh, organized by category with

a one-page guide if you want even more detail. And then at the very bottom of every page, you’ll see that we have oh

yes, and of course our resource library. And then you’ll see LinkedIn, Discord, and YouTube. YouTube is fairly in

occasional for when I post something. So it’s all right there. And like I would say above all else, um please just like

engage with us. Uh LinkedIn is kind of the glue that puts it all together with the content that I

post every week and then you won’t miss out on it. Yeah, I think just a second on how to get the most of this.

Definitely join the discord because then at least you got people to talk to if you get stuck and then the other thing is I would start with obviously you now

have a list a very good list of bunch of jobs so you can then see what people are hiring. But then honestly if you were to

get the most ROI for me is hit up those coaches man you got all those coaches you just need one conversation that will

change your life. At least for my personal life, like the last year, I’ve spent a lot on coaching. Every single

one, they share this one little tip, but then it completely changes the business. So, imagine that for a career as well. I

never had that before. I just kind of lucked out by speaking to certain people at the right time, but I can imagine how

useful that would be to, you know, speak to a coach and then they could tell you something that changes your life. Thank you so much.

Sweet. All righty, everyone at home, if you’re listening this far, share it with a friend. That’s my one ask. And goodbye

everyone.