good excited to kick this off for the first time yes I want to share the story

of how we met I thought it was quite cool it was was on LinkedIn and you sent me a message could you tell me what

happened so it all started over dinner with some close friends which didn’t

include Harry funnily enough um so my best friend and I and his wife my wife

went out for a meal got talking about work life Etc and all of a sudden gaming

recruitment pops up with my friend’s wife and she mentions Harry’s name she

said oh one of my cousins is involved in gaming recruitment I was aware of Harry

given the amount of posts he was doing at the time daily content and she said

do you know Harry by any chance I said I’ve seen his content is it this guy and

before you knew it it was Harry long story short I I sent a message across to

you and said I’m at dinner with your cousin so that’s the story and you were

going to be in England the week after what better way to meet in person over

some wings in SoHo that’s story yeah and it was amazing it was a lot of wings we

had an e coffee before that which is I thought really cool cuz I’m not sure if you did that that often at the time no

um in all truth I’d have regular catch ups with people um so from clients

candidates friends Etc but I’d never called it an e Coffee yeah so clients

and candidates BL I was like since January doing e coffees with pretty much anyone I’d want to talk to and no real

agenda but just vibing and I found that super useful and I thought like when we did it for the first time I don’t know I

got a feeling like oh this is something different you know and then when we met in person just kind of FasTrack that

relationship very very quickly and then yeah we’ve been traveling a lot together pretty much we went to Dubai together

and it’s been really good so I want to paint everyone a picture so you’re the

found over a gaming recruitment business how do we get to this point you’ve been in the industry for a while so could you

tell everyone like what’s happened to get to this point the story goes back essentially 12 years when prior to

starting recruitment I worked in sales in the maritime industry what’s the

maritime industry so long story short of the maritime industry I worked for a business that designed and manufactured

Marine navigation systems so I used to work alongside companies that ran fleets

of oil tankers petrol tankers super Yachts Etc whatever you needed for those

oil tankers Yachts to be at Sea we provided that so I was in the sales

industry for several years working with the Turkish market and actually Southeast Asian market did that for

around six seven years and I was given an opportunity to go out to Turkey to try a new

Venture and that lasted around 9 months not all things work out but the

experience of leaving everything behind and going out to try something different

outside of your comfort zone was something that I always wanted to do essentially so nine months spent in a

stumble and the biggest thing for me was relationships the side of relationships

aside from the sales was the most important thing for me so that didn’t work out as planned

and I came back to the UK thinking what next having left a life behind to start

from scratch in 2012 where could

I essentially put my skills into what do I love doing the most yes the sales

aspect keeps you motivated and know two days is the same but the most enjoyment

I ever got was nurturing a relationship from the start to the end which then

turned into a friendship and also a longlasting partnership so you get on to

the job bards what do you do sales relationships the only thing that was

popping up at the time was recruitment so started applying applying applying

before you knew it I landed my first recruitment job with a company called the huntress

group I was bought on to look after the it contracts market and to give you a

bit of detail about that I was responsible for building out entire

software development teams that ranges from technical directors all the way

down to Architects developers project managers businesses anyone within a team

to be able to build websites backend functions Etc that was

with two programming languages at a time microsoft.net C++ did that for a couple of years so

that was around two and a half years of actually learning the ropes of how to do

recruitment that was the most important thing for me um having done that for two

and a half years I then moved on to another company where I spent 5 and a

half years of building out a contracts team for them and in a space where they

hadn’t had experience they were predominantly working in audit Tax and

Finance they hadn’t tapped into the IT market so I went in there built a desk

from scratch and worked with digital media interactive clients again to build

our entire software development teams so that’s the beginning of my

career that was for around 8 years and I always had in the back of my mind that I

wanted to do my own thing and when I say I wanted to do my own thing I wanted to

do it my way having worked in certain recruitment environments which have been

great I also saw the bad side of it as well

so many recruitment companies in the UK are pretty

shortsighted people are used as Commodities it’s very sales kpi driven

and what I mean by shortsighted it’s about how do I say this it’s all about

maximizing profits as with any business you do need to bring in a profit there’s

no other way of running a business we all have to make money but you could do

it in an ethical way you could do it in the right way without being shortsighted so that’s where the idea came up of let

me do something different and I want to put the human touch into it one of the things that we hear about the most in

the recruitment industry is people being ghosted because people get forgotten

about and you will find that recruiters are only

in continuous contact with those who have got the most chance of success

which then converts into Revenue so for me it was about being in contact with

every single person and just putting myself into the shoes of those people

that were looking for work and trying to make a difference to their

lives so that’s that was a vision and from that on I got into a Business

Partnership set up my first business which I ran for three and a half years

before selling the business in December that was in games as well it was in games and we hadn’t had any gameing

experience it was by chance we fell into that industry and now and now so three

and a half years of building my first business which was complet completely

new to me I hadn’t been in those territories before so every move that I

made was essentially new to me being able to work as a recruiter was second

nature but running a successful business hiring building a team looking at things

from a strategic perspective was all completely new so I did that for three

and a half years sold the business in December and took three months out having worked

for almost 12 years in recruitment I took three months out and I’m now the

founder director of the pixel movement lovely so want to highlight a few things

here so with your experience like from this podcast we can cover the candidate

side the hiring manager side and the developer side as well the people

working in studios and like also people who like me running their own business I

think there’s a lot of lessons we can get here so I want to get into all three of these I’m curious like why did you name the company the pixel movement

quickly the reason why I named the business pixel movement is

because having worked in the games industry and seeing how Community Le it

was I wanted to build a safe haven for

the people that I was working with not only the developers but as important as the developers are the people making the

games so for me it was about bringing everyone closer and as I said creating a

safe haven for people to be part of something a lot of the times when you

speak to candidates who are searching for their next gig who have been outside

of work for a long time they seem lost and are not part of something so for me

it was important to bring everyone closer together connect everyone but the

most important thing for me is to give without the expectation of receiving so

for me it’s a movement it’s a community and it’s something that everyone can be a part of for sure

awesome so let’s start with the hiring manager side so you’ve been part of many

pro and as a recruiter I found that really cool that we sometimes get the perspective where we can see 30

different Studios and we can say because the market is a bit immature I guess

like there’s so many different flavors of a recruitment process so I just wanted to ask you like the one question

what do most Studios get wrong when you are having that conversation with them

when it comes to the interview process and hiring process I would say

seeing external partnership as only transactional and what I mean by

that is once they’ve got certain requirements let’s say for a new hire or

a project that they are working on is just sending that brief out a job

description and expecting Returns on it it doesn’t work that way you will find

many in the industry that will go off and do it and it’s something that you could do once you’ve got an established

relation reltionship and understand each other and the second is looking for

something that may not be out there I would say the third part of it

is having a clear structure in place who is going to interview how long are the

interviews going to be for what exactly are you looking for what is the need why

are you hiring all of these things can

be discussed with one call that takes 30 to 45 minutes which then in essence

could save hours if not weeks if not months of your time

so having a clear structure a process and knowing what you want to achieve at the end of

this is the one most important thing can’t agree more basically like

when I was working in recruitment having that qualification call where you go through the job and building that

relationship I work jobs where I didn’t do that and I don’t remember him as

funly as the ones where I did do that it’s such a game changer honestly at the

start of my career if a client send over a job i’ jump onto it like a dog on a

bone but I learned my lessons at a very early

stage and it’s about educating I think you’ve got to educate people um but you can’t

go off and just tell a client what to do that’s not how it works you have to

explain the reasoning behind it that’s going to benefit them because

essentially we all want the same outcome everyone wants to achieve the same outcome is is what I’ve always believed

in so don’t tell people what to do explain why you want to do it and what

the outcome is is going to be yeah exactly you mentioned three things there so I want to dig into some

of them the interview process you mentioned it’s important for the client

to have that I guess predetermined and agreed on you’ve seen many interview processes what do you feel is a better

interview process the best a better interview process I would

say is one that is streamlined through speed

and knowing what you want to get out of that interview process so for example uh

initial call to start the process to see if you both

align that I will always recommend little I would say rather than formal a

little bit more informal to talk to your candidate get to know them and tell them

a little bit more where it’s coming from the horse’s mouth so once you see that you’re then aligned

you move on to a second stage and at this point you can dig into the

technical aspects of the position yes tests are still a common thing in our

industry and for certain disciplines it could be a must to determine that now

the third stage after completing an interview process of technical capabilities or a test is then to round

everything off but the one thing that we come back to is speed and providing

feedback for a candidate we’ve come across many examples that clients do not provide

feedback after an interview providing feedback for a candidate after their

first interview then sets them up for the second stage of number one what to

expect but also allows them to become more engaged

so I would say provideing feedback and then the speed because

sometimes you’ll see after a first stage interview you won’t get feedback for two

weeks what happens during that period your candidate is less

engaged and your competition are going to beat you to the best candidate so

having a streamline process speed and knowing what you want is the most important thing

yes when there’s an interview process and you could potentially get a better

read of a person but it’s going to take five stages in two months that small extra benefit is nothing when you

compare it to the amount of great talent you’re going to miss out on in those two months I want to dig like you mentioned

those three processes I really like the first one where it’s like I’m guessing half an hour max or maybe an hour if

possible if it’s needed but that’s just to get to know the person person and you get to know a lot about that person

technical soft skills naturally anyway and it saves everyone time that can be like a one and done thing right and then

you get into the technical aspects I think that order is important if you go straight into technical you just miss so

much where you eventually find out on the last agage oh we’re not a good fit like well you have to invest a tech

director and potentially a tech review all this time which is the reason why you can’t have fast interview processes

because you’re putting everyone through so I love that order the feedback I think is an important um it’s an

important part of the process I’m realizing now like I was the conduit for all the feedback but I pretty much pretty sure

that those Studios wouldn’t have given the feedback to the candidate unless I asked for it and pushed for it so did

you do that as well like you gave the feedback to the candidate on their on the Studio’s behalf do you feel like they should be doing that on their

own no I think where look there’s no two ways to skin a cat as they say so when

you’re in a partnership with a studio or a client it’s it’s important that you help

them do their job MH so again you’re an extension of them so if they provide if

they wish to provide feedback Direct that’s incredible now recruitment is only a

small part of their daily job in a studio so this is where you come in to save their time so if they are able to

make notes during that interview process and provide it on an ATS then you are

always able to relay that across to them have I asked for the feedback yes on

several occasions at times for candidates who hadn’t made it through to the next stage

it’s also important to provide them feedback to see where they can further

improve where did it go wrong and where could it be better better it’s all about

educating because people are investing time into these processes people have gone done their research gone into an

interview process it could be one two three stages to to then not be provided feedback is disheartening and I

think it’s important that we invest time in people the same way they invest time

into us so explaining that to clients about why

it could help them provide feedback is an important aspect of that entire

process let it be a negative response or a positive response for a positive

response it then excites the candidate to want to continue that process and it shows how Keen you are on them so

yeah the benefits are there it’s yeah the benefits are there for everybody exactly it just takes that extra bit of

effort but there is an important part of the process which I want to make a note of and that

is for external Partners to always provide the feedback to their clients

and what are the benefits of that so I’ve always learned to have a

conversation with every single one of my candidates as soon as they come out of

that interview and it helps both parties so we can use this as an example

someone comes out on out of an interview they’d forgotten a couple of questions which has now come to their mind so once

you’re going through the interview feedback with your candidate to see how it had gone they may have missed out a

couple of questions spare of the moment so that then comes to their mind which you can provide your client as feedback

because that could have been essential for them to move to the next stage that makes all of the difference

but at the same time they may now have questions of what is missing within this

job for them so having that 10 minutes conversation with each candidate and

providing that feedback to your client then allows your client to better be prepared for the next

stage what did they like what didn’t they like what questions they have and

what they should be prepared for the next stage so it’s essential you speak to people St right away and provide

feedback to both parties it’s not just a client and it’s not just about a candidate it’s a two-way thing exactly

having everyone involved and it makes it so when the interview process is happening it doesn’t just stop as soon

as the interview is done like right now we’re going to be in the dark for a week or two I think the 10-minute conversation like you said right after

and then you can async talk with the client and the candidate it just speeds everything along and shows the

engagement like you said it’s just like the the oil that is just

making everything a lot more smoother like the process it’s not only making it smoother everyone knows where they

stand and I think that’s so important just like you just mentioned there’s been several occasions

when someone will come out of an interview the client doesn’t know how that candidate feels and the candidate

doesn’t know how the client feels and two days go by three days go by what

happens during that time everyone is thinking yeah what’s going on where do I

stand what happens next I think a recruiter’s job is to fill in that Gap

and even when there is no update update that there is no update yes that is an

update that is an update within itself so I just think updating people keeping

everyone in the loop is one of the most important parts of that interview process yeah and I think comes back to

having that short-term versus long-term mindset in a short-term mindset you could save time by not doing all of

these things but these are they are people and people don’t just disappear

after you sent them through through a role or you’ve interviewed them as a studio small world Small industry so all

of these things pay huge dividends later having that extra second or the extra

feedback just to build that kind of relationship and the respect for their time that they’ve invested in the

process I I couldn’t agree with you more I think those 10 minutes of having

interview feedback with someone could be the make or break of starting that

entire process again of not identifying the right person look I’ll give you an

example of this during a time at my previous company we

were recruiting for an incredible mobile Studio space ape in London you all know

them from Boom Beach then they had a game called beat Star and most recently

Chrome Valley which has taken over the mobile industry and actually gone through the roof so we had lovely lady

who was interviewing for us for game designer position and she’d got off the

call the first initial call and she said this doesn’t align with me I feel like

I’m going to be pigeon hold doing certain aspects of the role and I want to do so much more than

this so during that feedback what was our duty our duty was

to understand what what was missing so why do you feel that it wasn’t aligned

what is it exactly that you want to do in your next role and understanding what makes them happy what motivates them and

what what’s going to make the right fit that’s not for us to push someone into something that

they’re not comfortable with but understand what makes everything work so

once we’d had that conversation and that passed that back to the client they were

like no I think we’ve actually misunderstood each other during this interview the position is not to pigeon

hole this person and do certain aspects of level design but they’ll have the opportunity to do this this and this

we got them on to another call within 10 15 minutes on the same day just to

realign everything little did you know it was a complete misunderstanding and

the position was exactly what they were looking for at the end of that that that one move

was so important for that to actually turn out on a positive end go through where

she was actually offered the role she ended up accepting the role and moving from Spain to the UK yeah so that was a

literal lifechanging moment right there like they’re moving those 10 minutes exactly so I think that story explains

it very well CU both parties benefited they found that placement and that all

that took is that alignment like understanding that everyone is here to

have that conversation and understand each other but when there is misunderstanding you do not have to be

in the or just assume you can just have that extra extra jab extra extra

conversation just to actually get the information across I’ve seen you at work

in Dubai and the way you build relationships and I think it’s one of your superpowers the ability to just

become friends with the people and it benefits both parties yours of course cuz they’re friends with you and it

becomes a long partnership also them cuz I feel like you understand them that much better how how do you go about

becoming basically friends and building that long-term relationship with your clients and your candidates I actually had this

conversation last week amazing fresh um this is completely fresh to

me I was speaking to a client last week and one of the first things that I

mention to anyone that I’m speaking to is that I don’t change myself as a person when I’m having a conversation so

the same way that I would speak to my wife to my father to my close friends

and family is exactly the same way that I would speak to a new client to a new

candidate so yes you can adapt and put yourself in their

position but but approach people like you know them and actually be interested

in their story everybody has a story and everyone wants to tell their story but

show a keen interest in what people do I think as salese and

recruiters if you think about what you want to get out of it it’s just a

one-way thing so from the moment you meet people get

to know them but get to know them on a personal level talk about their

Journey their families their work life and find out what you

could do for them that’s one of the most important aspects for me of building

relationships so I don’t just go into a conversation and say hey have you got

any jobs can we work together build a relationship at first build a

friendship and the rest comes with it so yes

although you’re approaching it as building a friendship when it comes to work that’s

when it’s game time so for me it’s there’s two sides of that partnership

there’s the Friendship side which is Vibes like you always say Vibes Vibes Vibes but when it comes to helping them

out in their job in their company that’s the moment you adapt and

switch because it’s game time and you’ve got to deliver what you’ve been working on for all this

time exact The Vibes I feel like are the foundation for the work because you’ve

gotten to understand that person and you know what they want I really love that frame like if you’re going into a

conversation thinking oh this is what I want so I’m going to ask questions about that no you want to be figuring out what

they want from life I feel cuz there might be something you pick up

there oh I can actually help them with that I might be be able to introduce them to someone and if you’re that person who’s coming in who’s going to be

given as much value as possible well your competitor is in doing that and your can your client is going to get

that much better experience and you actually have the full picture I think like you said you basically pit and ho

yourself if you’re going in thinking ah I’m going to ask all the questions that will get me a job let’s say but no

you’re going to see them as a person first and then the work comes later it actually makes the work part better

because you’ve actually got the foundation the first question it goes back to what we were saying at the beginning you don’t want this to be

transactional if this becomes transactional then you’re just another

recruiter and as cliche as this sound people buy from people and that

will never ever change if you and I never liked each other we wouldn’t work

with each wouldn’t be here right now we wouldn’t be here right now we wouldn’t be going to dinner and we wouldn’t be speaking on a daily basis

but it’s it’s even those small things that you do of giving to

people G give them give them insight to the industry share your

experiences give them you know how do I explain this give them things that will

benefit them just from a life perspective from from the experiences that you’ve had that could perhaps

look it doesn’t take five minutes this is from a candidate perspective it doesn’t take five minutes to give

someone advice it costs nothing that person could be struggling to find their

next gig and it could all be down to their CV isn’t great they’ve not had the

experience of putting together a good CV so that five minutes could make all the

difference to someone’s life and then that ties in with the building of relationships again

that person will always remember you for how you helped them at that moment so

get to know people for who they are and support people rather than thinking

about what the best outcome is going to be for you yeah that’s my philosophy I

feel like it is selfish to be selfless spot on it’s so easy to live life that

way cuz you end up being nice and then the universe always gives back that example you just said there during

Christmas I did a thing where I had no calls the next week I was like okay I just want to talk to some people so I

did 10 free CV reviews I did I then they were all booked I did eight they were

with candidates gave them experience a couple of them got jobs I obviously felt good but then two of them were actual

hiring managers at big studios who just wanted a fresh up of the TV and then ended up being on the podcast I was like

amazing so the universe gave back very directly I saw it happen

and I needed to do all 10 of those for that to happen obviously because I made that

promise but I got so much out of actually trying to explain to someone CU I didn’t understand about the industry

myself like his perspective as as a portfolio artist I was like I didn’t actually consider that

before so I just got a lot of more insights from the industry just giving and understanding where that person’s at

and trying to give as much value as you can the universe always gives back so I think as a recruiter is just number one

thing when you have that mindset it just always works everything comes full

circle and I gave an example of this recently of how one

intera over the course of three and a half years has now become a good friend

and a client so I met with an audio lead in

2021 and our first conversation was just to get to know each other how how often

is it that we get onto a call and say how are you doing tell me more about you

tell me what is going on in your life I want to know and that that relationship

blossomed from those moments I was working on a couple of requirements for

clients for lead audio designers unfortunately we didn’t get the

opportunity for those interview processes to turn turn into success and into a new role however we constantly

kept in contact of checking in with each other every couple of weeks how are you

getting on how is the market how has your interviews been going what what is

going wrong with them is there any advice that I can actually give you to help you I don’t want anything out of it

they’re not even my processes I’m probably helping another recruiter at this point but it’s just a human touch

and I think the human touch is so important so fast forward 3 and a half

years of regularly speaking to each other checking in seeing what’s going on in their life you fast forward it to

2024 when I was starting the pixel movement he constantly be in contact

with me give me support give me guidance give me feedback and there was an element of friendship and trust between

us where I could give him advice but most more he could give me advice so it was a friendship

again now they’re in a position where a team of them have set up an incredible

new business they’ve got a funding of 6.9 million and

are starting to work on their first game and it’s actually turned into a new climent which I’m excited to be working

with but if we go back to it it’s all about that relationship and the

friendship we’ve built that now puts an element of trust between in US of

working together so look there’s clear clear examples of where this can lead

and if everyone Wass to spend a little bit more time of asking people how they

are and focusing on building a relationship it will always come full circle yeah it’s a more fun day it’s a

more fun conversation and it actually leads to Better Business outcomes for everyone spot on so why not I want to

move into more nitty-gritty stuff now so you told me you had 25 retained roles in

like 4 months if I remember right okay how the hell do you actually do that as from one recruiter to another like how

did you actually deliver on that well

again to get to a stage of a retainer there has to be proof that you

can actually deliver so you didn’t ask for it immediately no you don’t you can

always if it a new client to go with the approach of give can we work on a

retained basis it depends on the role that you’re working on all the amount of roles but how much trust is a client

going to have within you to be able to deliver on multiple roles in your first

interaction so it was two and a half years of actually building that

relationship building that trust with this client and getting to know the

business the projects and who were the right people

for them to be able to get them to their Milestones of delivering incredible

games so it was two and a half years of working on a contingent basis and

understanding what stage the projects were at what did they need the most and

being able to add value consistently as an external partner

so when a new project came to life and they had

to deliver x amount of roles I think it was in excess of 80 roles within 6

months so they’ve got an incredible recruitment team but they needed the additional support so what I then did

was put a case study together of what we had delivered see had a look at what

they needed which was around 25 positions but it’s going to

be a win for the client at the same time so it was about cost

optimization that was one part of it and the second part of it was delivering the

best candidates in Rapid time so we had

a big briefing call with hiring managers to understand what were the requirements

then we had a briefing call with the entire HR team to establish a process

which was outside of the normal this project was going to be running on its own and I was responsible for running

that project so the first thing I wanted to do was I created a slack channel for

hiring managers to be there the recruit internal recruitment team to be in that

so we could have continuous communication the communication was going to be key to be able to facilitate

multiple interviews at any given time so once we’ looked at those 25 roles what I

then did was figured out with the client of what the average salaries were so

once we establish that a salary would be between 60 to 70,000 for example we

would then cap our fee at 65 no matter what they paid that’s just one example

which then if it was on a contingent basis it would cost x amount but on a

retain basis there was a capped fee and the outcome of that is you’re

reducing cost for a client at the same time you’re delivering in Rapid time so

when we looked at a difficulty of each position I’ve always said

accountability is very important as a recruiter so having looked at how hard

each position is we then put an SLA into place what’s that so it’s a service

level agreement of we will deliver and have this position filled within x

amount of time so not sent candidates filled so you were confident enough to say fied in the agreement filled within

x amount of time okay how how did you have so much confidence that you would do that cuz you’re dealing with people

right you’re dealing with people but having the experience of working with that client for two and a

half years knowing exactly what their interview process is you could then look

back at all of your previous hires for each position they’ve hired for so a VFX

artist one of the most sought after positions in the gaming industry this isn’t a position that you

could fill in two weeks it’s a hard task so we looked down the average times it

took us to fill previous VFX positions with this client and said it’s going to

take x amount of time to find this person in this region with this skill

set and we did that for every single one of those roles based on the previous

experience that we had with the client and other case studies we’ve had with

other clients so that’s how we come up with a time frame of delivering on each

position so use your previous experience to use that um agreement because I can

imagine from a client’s perspective that’s awesome like imagine having that confidence saying ah s’s going to feel

that role in two weeks great and it’s signed right there corre you can only do that because you had the two and a half

years of experience y do you think you could get to that level with a client in less time

absolutely it depends how quickly you build the relationship with

the client so it goes back to us saying if a client and yourself don’t put effort

into building that relationship it will take a longer time but look from from

the offset if you have relationships with hiring managers with the HR team example the

CEOs you have access to having conversations with everyone not

to back door them and try and send CVS or create new opportunities but just

having those 5 10 minute conversations with hiring managers with the haart te you get to know each person individually

you get to know the business you know the projects inside out if you go to a

studio for example you get a tour how easier is it to then be able to go and

relay their story to your candidates to the market for example if you were

running your studio and I spent a whole day with you in your studio you’ve then

given me two or fre requirements I could say I’ve spent the day with Harry I know

what he’s like I’ve I’ve seen the studio I’ve seen the team this is who is on the

team it just makes your life easier so to answer your

question it depends how much effort is being put into that

relationship from the studio perspective I just want to highlight how overpowered that is like when I was selling a role

to a candidate and I could say oh I know the person who’s going to be um managing

you on this team I’ve had him on a podcast I’ve met with him a couple times with L this is how he’s like very nice person because of XYZ that I’ve

experienced personally you would enjoy this conversation maybe keep this in mind during the interview that candidate

is going to be like okay cool it’s it’s a different level of Engagement cuz you got all those real aspects and from the

studio perspective you want that you want that experience for your candidates because you’re going to get the better

talent that way and you’ve basically been able to give that to all candidates for that studio which yeah is very

powerful yeah look um how much easier is that conversation if I’ve turned around

and said I was at dinner with the CEO and this is what he does this is what

he’s into this is his story I’ve got a great relationship with the talent team

this is how they work this is what their process is these are you know look if you’ve got previous experience of

placing within that studio these are the people that I’ve worked with this is the backgrounds they’ve had this is who

you’d be working alongside it’s a complete different story and I think

it’s It’s always important because you’re an extension of a company yes I think that’s super important to be an

extension and not the transactional Head Hunter who finds a CV cuz that extension

part like the actual definition of that word right is it’s a game changer for the candidate experience as well which

is Paramount to actually get in the best talent which is what most people want

agreed agreed all righty the balance of empathy

and process you’ve spoken about building relation ships but when I actually think

about the process of actually finding those 25 um candidates in that case

that’s a big process task as well so how do you balance the empathy with the

process how do I balance the empathy with the process I think once you know exactly

what a client wants so that’s a checkbox that that that is one of the big biggest

checkpoints I think knowing exactly what they want in each

requirement then sort of

minimizes the people that not not minimize but it allows you to approach

the right person for the right job and I think it’s important to not waste

people’s time and this isn’t a numbers game of speaking to as many people as

possible and then sending them to the client in the hope for the best outcome

now if you understand what a client wants you reach out to the right people

so you’ve got the right searches in place you’re speaking to the right people and you’re actually speaking to

them because you truly believe that they’ve got not only the characteristics

the personality but also the technical capability of Landing this position I think it’s

all about quality the empathy side still comes into it you still treat every

single person that you speak to exactly how you expect to be treated and throughout that you’ve

always got to remind yourself that people are living breathing things with emotions and going in and understanding

them because you want to ensure as much as they’re a right fit for the

client they have to be so the right fit for the client the client has to be a

right fit for them to allow them to progress in their careers to allow them

to feel at home we spend a lot of time in our daily jobs so the empathy side of

it can never go away is what I say

with the empathy you are a then able to actually do that rigorous filter I feel

like you mentioned speaking to less people it’s because you’re able to because you filtered based on the empathy and I think that answers a

little bit like my question like I used to be when I’m looking for a role

sometimes the description was pretty much mobile Unity developer if that’s your only filter then it will be a case

of speaking to as many as possible and then having to filter on those individual calls but I feel like the

empathy and the Good Vibes actually have allowed enabled you to be able to do that filter and then you can focus on

the quality right you’re you’re already doing the filter in your mind but if you just like you said if you’ve got such a

small amount of info on what you’re looking for then you’re you’re bringing people’s

hopes up in those conversations and you want to have a conversation with

someone that you you actually believe it yeah respect their time your time the

client’s time it helps everyone you need to I think this is just uh another plus

one for having those qualification calls because then you’re able to do that and doing them well which you clearly do

like you don’t want to go in there and ask questions you could have found out from the job prescription of course you want to get the nitty-gritty so once you

get that then you can do that rigorous filtering but at the same time if you ever come across a situation when you’re

on a conversation when you’re having a conversation with a candidate for example and depending on

how that conversation goes you at certain points can have an inkling that

this may not be the right position for this candidate what do I have strugle with this when I was 10 minutes in I was

like I know this isn’t for you and and ultimately you’re thinking on the call this person is not right for this but

how do I explain it to them I always like to turn around and say look these

are the requirements how do you feel that aligns with your skill set does

this align with your skill set have you previously done this how would you feel

if you were going to do this based on what I’ve based on the conversations that I’ve had with my client perhaps

this may not be right but what is your thoughts because who am I to judge at that point because I’m not a technical

expert I don’t code in C++ for example but you give someone the

opportunity to answer for themselves so I may have a fa process of this may not

be right for you but give people the opportunity let them know what your thoughts are but also hear their

thoughts and then together as a collective you can make a decision

together so I always like to be transparent and honest with people want to call if I don’t believe believe that

they are the right fit i’ always want to tell them about do it in the right way

you don’t just say look I don’t think you’re right for this shut the phone and off we go give people the opportunity to

explain themselves and if at that point you still don’t believe they’re the right fit then then tell them but advise

what could be the right fit and help them in other ways yeah future roles that’s a me look there is an opport

Unity for every single person out there is what I believe there there is no one

person that’s going to be jobless for life it doesn’t work what works for one client may not work for another client

so there’s always a home for every single person is what I believe I agree this is a personal question now it’s the

same question but different context so how do you balance the empathy part with

process when it comes to building out your team so this is when you were building out your first recruitment

business and you developed a recruitment team I’m going for that stage now where I’m working with more people how do you

balance the stuff that needs to get done the process with also the

empathy time time time time and what I mean by

that is make time for people make time for people yes we are there to do a job

but just like you get to know candidates and clients from a personal

perspective understand what makes makes those people happy understand what their

challenges are and what they want to achieve from life so don’t hire people

to work with you I’m a massive believer of you don’t get people to work for you

you build a business around people when you build it upon trusting

them and trusting these people and giving them the opportunity to be

creative to actually make mistakes and learn mistakes breeds great leaders is

what I’ve always believed but I will always make time for anyone that I’ve

hired into my business whatever it be you know just going out to check in a 5

minute coffee break outside to say what’s going on not from a work perspective but just hey what’s going on

tell me a little bit more what what you’ve been up to recently how’s the family just get them out of that space

and it’s a separate little relationship you have with people but once we come in

and we’ve got a job to do we can then sit down and crack on but always make

time for people is is what I believe whether it’s inside of work and outside of work and build a relationship with

people that allows them to be comfortable being able to reach out to you how how do you build that so there

is a situation where they do feel comfortable to reach

out got to think about this one um cuz I can feel from speaking to

you and being around you I would feel comfortable reaching out to you but I couldn’t pinpoint the exact reason why

so why do you think that happens show them that you care Harry oh

show them that you actually care not caring about their output

that’s going to make you thousands of millions within a business should them that you care about them

and again open a safe haven for them to be able to come to you for anything and

that’s how you get the best out of people is showing that you send sincerely care about them for the right

reasons and look I I got into business for certain things I I built my

first business which was a successful business and there were certain things that I wanted to get out of it I’ll tell

you what those things were it was yes to provide stability for my family to be

the best at what I was doing but I was once given an opportunity to make a

difference in my life for my family and for myself now the biggest goal for me

was to actually be able to give that opportunity to the people that I hired

yeah for them to be able to change their life for the better and if I was able to

give 5% of that of what I learned and give them an opportunity to make that

change in their life for the better whether it be from a learning perspective whether that be from a

career perspective or from a monetization perspective of bringing

stability to their lives then I won and that’s how I measured my success and

that’s how I opened up the gates for them to come to me about anything and everything be a

friend care and just be honest with people perfect I want to ask you about

the current state of the industry there’s a lot of recruiters out at the moment at the work in the games industry

and there might be some aspiring to do recruitment in the game industry what advice would you give to

them for those that are in the industry best advice I can give to

anyone is continue doing those micro

toss that most run away from and

the other pieces of advice I could give is always be honest and always always

update people build relationships and show that you care about what you’re

doing share your story but most importantly get to know people for who

they are and give them all the support possible so if I’m in the industry now

that is just want to second that like being honest CU then that’s actually allows you to be long term in Industry

you can’t be honest you can’t be dishonest for that long just just do the right thing yeah what if you don’t have

a job yet um or you used to have a job and you can’t do those microtasks

anymore what would you recommend for them to actually get the job would you recommend them to post on LinkedIn or what would you do in that situation I’ve

I’ve had a couple of these conversations recently and I’ve got some friends and colleagues that are recruiters within

the gaming industry that have been out outside of work for a long time now

you’ll find that in a competitive market where there’s been so many layoffs your competition is going to be fierce and

for someone that’s inexperienced about applying for work they will go and click

on a job on LinkedIn and apply you’ve got to remember that there’s probably

another 100 or 200 of you that are out there doing the same thing so how do you

differentiate yourself from that so I think the biggest start would be to have

a polished LinkedIn and if you don’t have so then reach out to someone within

your network for example I could use myself with or you for this to say what

do you think about my LinkedIn what could I improve turn to friends turn to colleagues start off by improving your

CV your LinkedIn profile but every time you actually apply for work go that

little bit deeper who actually posted this job see if you can identify that

person connect with them and try and build out a relationship and give them a reason to want to speak to you try and

for if you’re applying to ex company try and connect with people within that company find Mutual connections but my

my go too with everything is speak to your network utilize your network

because a friend of a a friend is a friend that may know of something that’s not out there so connect with as many

people as possible speak to everyone utilize your network and just go above

and beyond rather than clicking apply but the most important thing is you will

get many rejections and you are not alone and you’ve got to keep going so

looking for a job is a job within it itself I’ve always learned that just

have as many conversations as possible and keep going yeah those conversations are super important especially the point

you made about friends of a friend like having one conversation could potentially mean you’ve now in the brain

space of 400 500 people cuz anytime that person might think of a role they can then tell you but also all their friends

whenever they think of role and they get whiff of it then you could potentially know so that’s why having those 20 30

conversations you’ve now plugged yourself into so many networks and yeah can’t second the LinkedIn refresh enough

cuz that is the first impression of everyone who once you do get attention or you do speak to someone you need that

to be optimized and there’s a few people on Amir satat website he’s got a few

that recommend or you can reach out to me or or sell potentially just for a few tips how about for gaming professionals

who are out of work now what advice would you give for a gaming professional out of work now

gaming professional so we’ve seen tons and tons of resources that are out on

the market and I think the first go-to place is air and there’s plenty of

resources which people outside of work can utilize but there’s

also gaming recruitment Specialists just like myself to reach out to where if I’m

not hiring a particular I could then put you in contact with people I may know or tell you the

clients that I’m working with that are not hiring for positions perhaps within

your field at this moment but allow you to build relationships with those clients I think the first go-to place

would be the resources that are online on LinkedIn try and get involved with

the community as much as possible but then build relationships with external

Partners just like myself yeah building the relationship with the recruiters the external ones overpowered I’ve had a

couple people ask me over the couple years like oh can you give me a lay of the land and I can then tell them all

right these companies are hiring these companies pretty much don’t bother and only a few people have done that so

imagine how few people are actually doing that so you have the extra Edge and there are plenty of external recruiters who will give you that answer

not all of them will but some will where it’s worth it some some will look I had a conversation recently

where this candidate didn’t even know about the resources that was available within the gaming community and some of

the clients that I’ve had relationships with over the years which is 2025 different Studios although I’m not actively

working with some of those right now I was able to provide that list to this candidate to then go and check out those

clients and build relationships perhaps with the recruitment team or the hiring managers

or even just have a browser of their websites to see what comes up look I think what else you can do is put

notifications on every single one of the studios that you want to be a part of draw up a big list put notifications and

and look when people are hiring because you want to be first in you’ve got to be proactive yeah you want to make find the

job a game I want a game ofy have a little spreadsheet make everything kind of the notifications is key and

it might feel like nothing’s happening until you get the job but you are doing things so like improving that list is a

checkbox task I think that’s really healthy for the mental aspect of feeling like when you’ve woken up and you’ve

done some work you’ve actually contributed to your job shirts and you can actually document that so I think yeah being organized with that

spreadsheet just for that sense of progress is really important as well agreed amazing the pixel movement has a

cool feature right could you tell me more about that so the coolest feature feature

about the pixel movement is the well-being aspect of it and how the

well-being aspect works of the pixel movement having seen what the industry

has gone through and seeing people that are looking for work and how much of a

toll it can take on their mental wealth

some some people out outside of work for three six months and applying for work and going through interview process is

can take a toll on its mind I’ve been there myself so what I wanted to do was

introduce something that goes beyond the norm of supporting people so with every

successful placement fee I provide we provide

£150 worth of well-being vouchers to both the candidate and the client and

how do I essenti works is once you’ve gone through an interview process with

the pixel movement and success successfully secured your new home your

new job we would then provide 150 worth of vouches which you can put towards

your well-being and this could be to go out with your partner or with kids to a

yoga session a course in a different language just go out and do something

for you after going through such a period of

applying for work or being outside of work so I just thought that how can I level up in terms of

supporting people Beyond just finding their next job really yeah so you get

the win of finding a new job and making that new hire and then you also have the treat as well which is like super nice

yeah look uh many companies have got well-being schemes and and I myself had

a well well-being scheme at at the business my previous business but we get so caught up in working how often do we

actually utilize that even with private healthc care or whatever it is there’s gym memberships there and there’s um you

know physiotherapy or mental health sessions but how often are we pushed to

go and actually do that through our own back so if there is someone there that says hey I’ve got £150

voucher for you to go and do something for you and I want you to do that for you it was just different way of

approaching Recruitment and just supporting people amazing when you first told me I found it very very cool just

it makes so much sense so yeah really cool feature yep where can people go to

find more about you and the pixel movement so first and foremost Linkin

reach out to me on LinkedIn DM me connect with me and website is in the

works now it should be with us in the next couple of weeks so by any means

reach out to my LinkedIn yeah check out s sell on LinkedIn and you also post as well recently um which is really cool to

hear not that many recruitment Founders post as regularly so it’s really cool seeing you post more as well and seeing

you build in public it’s all thanks to you but it’s good not I’ve had many of

those conversations and not everyone actually follows through so yeah I don’t get the credit it’s a hard task to

follow through but keep keep a journal I think Al Ali far mentioned it today he

said keep a journal of absolutely everything that you do and you there there’s a life lesson in everything it

really is in every moment of your day whether it be work or personal life try

and resonate with it and come up with an idea of to post about something but the

quality is important the quality of what you’re getting out has to be important don’t post for the sake of posting so I

try to post once twice a week once the very minimum twice is where I want to be

the rest of the time is head down doing what I do best amazing so thank you so

much you’re welcome man been a pleasure been a pleasure